gk_2000
08-09 01:13 PM
Hilarious.... Hilarious.....
1) EB2 with PD like 2007 and 2008 will certainly oppose. It is understandable. But why many EB3 folks themselves oppose it? Because they are with "looser mentality". EB3 folks, listen! No body cares about you. Then why do you care about other categories. Don't be a looser. Take care of your problem first.
2) The lawyer was suggesting us to convert to EB2. You bet. Dont you know why?
Most of the EB2 got their GC. The only loosers are EB3. With IV's reach it can easily help EB3. I told this many times before. But IV core is saying it will be very hard to even do a simplest releif measure. I simply do not understand. I hope and pray IV core will listen this time.
I suggest you drop out of EB2, and learn some English spellings before coming here and chiding people. Get lost!
1) EB2 with PD like 2007 and 2008 will certainly oppose. It is understandable. But why many EB3 folks themselves oppose it? Because they are with "looser mentality". EB3 folks, listen! No body cares about you. Then why do you care about other categories. Don't be a looser. Take care of your problem first.
2) The lawyer was suggesting us to convert to EB2. You bet. Dont you know why?
Most of the EB2 got their GC. The only loosers are EB3. With IV's reach it can easily help EB3. I told this many times before. But IV core is saying it will be very hard to even do a simplest releif measure. I simply do not understand. I hope and pray IV core will listen this time.
I suggest you drop out of EB2, and learn some English spellings before coming here and chiding people. Get lost!
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reddymjm
06-13 11:31 AM
My attorney told me that they sent my case to USCIS through FEDEX overnight on 6th June. My check is not cleared from my bank yet. I am concerned about my RD. Any idea?
If it is NSC they are still working on 6/1/07 cases. Relax...
If it is NSC they are still working on 6/1/07 cases. Relax...
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KanME
07-20 12:44 AM
I am all for it...
i will contribute $100..
i will contribute $100..
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When485
04-21 04:19 PM
I could not control my feelings and shock when I read your post. We talk and cry about the delays and inconveniences but this one...OMG,,its really upsetting.. I immediately prayed for your welfare and peace...somehow I got a flash inside me saying that " you will live beyond 4-6 months and something will work out for you""
Hope you get some positive news soon!
take care
Hope you get some positive news soon!
take care
more...
swissgear
08-25 10:00 PM
Not sure if its a BREAK or no Visa numbers...
On a serious note, there have been 4 cases approved today(from other site - 2 cases from India and 2 from ROW). So looks like there are some ROW applications also in queue during this time of the year getting approved. I saw someone from EB2-ROW getting 485 approved (filed 140/485 concurrently) in a record time of just 30 calendar days(Filed on July 26th and approved Aug 25th). Never heard USCIS was so efficient.
Looking at the positive side, since they are still approving ROW cases, it may mean that spillover is still happening and there are visas available.
On a serious note, there have been 4 cases approved today(from other site - 2 cases from India and 2 from ROW). So looks like there are some ROW applications also in queue during this time of the year getting approved. I saw someone from EB2-ROW getting 485 approved (filed 140/485 concurrently) in a record time of just 30 calendar days(Filed on July 26th and approved Aug 25th). Never heard USCIS was so efficient.
Looking at the positive side, since they are still approving ROW cases, it may mean that spillover is still happening and there are visas available.
reachthepalace
09-13 11:40 AM
Received note from my lawyers today on I-140/I-485 receipt at NSC
PD: June 2007
Labor:EB2
140/485 filed: July 27, 2007
Received at NSC: July 30, 2007 (Don't know who signed etc.)
Recept dated: Sept 6, 2007
-D
Not attending DC rally due to personal reasons.
PD: June 2007
Labor:EB2
140/485 filed: July 27, 2007
Received at NSC: July 30, 2007 (Don't know who signed etc.)
Recept dated: Sept 6, 2007
-D
Not attending DC rally due to personal reasons.
more...
walking_dude
06-27 09:21 PM
A note to my fellow IV members - I am not after the $42/Hr job. Good luck in finding a US citizen to do this job. I was wrong about EEO, it is actually IRCA which prohibits discrimination in recruitment and hiring.
Best Practices for hiring workers from Department of Justice (http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/osc/htm/best_practices.htm)
But the point remains - visa status based discrimination is illegal not matter which law is being violated, and must be highlighted. We have to correct the misinformation spread by anti-immigrant groups that most jobs are "reserved for H1Bs", while the reality is different. Most jobs are "reserved" for American workers (although such reservation is illegal under IRCA). We have to provide the proof that the myth of "thousands of jobs reserved for foreign workers" in nothing but a myth. My posting is a small step in that direction.
Here is another one in the continuing series of exposing the highly prevalent illegal hiring practice. I request everyone to start posting similar job-ads you get from recruiters. Once we get a hundred or more ads here, we can start E-mailing the links to the media.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
fromPatricia (Vyshnavi Infotech) <patricia@vysinc.com>
to"Patricia (Vyshnavi Infotech)" <patricia@vysinc.com>
dateMon, Jun 1, 2009 at 12:56 PM
subjectJobs for Web logic consultants
HI,
This is Patricia Evan. I have the below position for one of my clients. If you are interested in this position please send me your updated resume.
Web logic Java Consultant
Duration is 6 months.
Location is Connecticut
Must be US Citizen
Looking for a Weblogic Java Consultant with strong pharmaceutical experience
this person will be building webpage’s and build controls to access database Page flow development for a portal that supports my clients clinical trial tracking process. This internal/external portal
allows documents to be accessed and uploaded, etc.
The successful candidates should have the skills mentioned below and also know how to debug problems, how to configure into weblog console, and query a database to join tables. Client will teach the business processes.
Must Haves:
Deep development skills
Weblogic Admin tool 10.2
Apache Beehive Page Flow
Database controls
Java/JSP
Strong SQL
Oracle 10G (preferred)
AJAX
Java Script
Candidate must have all of above….strong Apache Beehive Page Flow is key to position.
Regards,
Patricia Evan
IT Recruiter
Vyshnavi Infotech INC
Herndon, VA 20170
PH : 703-793-1868 Ext 211
Fax: 703-547-0135
Email:patricia@vysinc.com
Best Practices for hiring workers from Department of Justice (http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/osc/htm/best_practices.htm)
But the point remains - visa status based discrimination is illegal not matter which law is being violated, and must be highlighted. We have to correct the misinformation spread by anti-immigrant groups that most jobs are "reserved for H1Bs", while the reality is different. Most jobs are "reserved" for American workers (although such reservation is illegal under IRCA). We have to provide the proof that the myth of "thousands of jobs reserved for foreign workers" in nothing but a myth. My posting is a small step in that direction.
Here is another one in the continuing series of exposing the highly prevalent illegal hiring practice. I request everyone to start posting similar job-ads you get from recruiters. Once we get a hundred or more ads here, we can start E-mailing the links to the media.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
fromPatricia (Vyshnavi Infotech) <patricia@vysinc.com>
to"Patricia (Vyshnavi Infotech)" <patricia@vysinc.com>
dateMon, Jun 1, 2009 at 12:56 PM
subjectJobs for Web logic consultants
HI,
This is Patricia Evan. I have the below position for one of my clients. If you are interested in this position please send me your updated resume.
Web logic Java Consultant
Duration is 6 months.
Location is Connecticut
Must be US Citizen
Looking for a Weblogic Java Consultant with strong pharmaceutical experience
this person will be building webpage’s and build controls to access database Page flow development for a portal that supports my clients clinical trial tracking process. This internal/external portal
allows documents to be accessed and uploaded, etc.
The successful candidates should have the skills mentioned below and also know how to debug problems, how to configure into weblog console, and query a database to join tables. Client will teach the business processes.
Must Haves:
Deep development skills
Weblogic Admin tool 10.2
Apache Beehive Page Flow
Database controls
Java/JSP
Strong SQL
Oracle 10G (preferred)
AJAX
Java Script
Candidate must have all of above….strong Apache Beehive Page Flow is key to position.
Regards,
Patricia Evan
IT Recruiter
Vyshnavi Infotech INC
Herndon, VA 20170
PH : 703-793-1868 Ext 211
Fax: 703-547-0135
Email:patricia@vysinc.com
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sury
11-21 10:31 AM
I am shocked to see this thread. All my prayers are with you and your family. As other members suggested, I strongly recommend you to do PRANAYAMA everyday. If possible try to consult any Yoga Teacher.
W.r.t to your question I recommend to you talk to attorney.
W.r.t to your question I recommend to you talk to attorney.
more...
sriram18
04-22 06:23 PM
Count me in..
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delhiguy
07-04 08:08 PM
No use in getting exploited, Its you life , resign and get another job.
I worked with a MNC for 4 yr 10 months at US soil and they ruined my GC saying that they want me more at Offshore (India ).... I got intelligence about this planning about 3 months earlier from a real good friend of mine ... So i arranged a H1B Job with a Desi consulting company in this 3 months and when they asked me to go back To India - you know what finger i've shown them.
Now this desi consulting company kept their words with salary,applied for LC quickly( because my H1 was close to 6 yrs) and i'm with them for 2.5 yrs . Now when i reached them for a employer letter for 485 they changed colors and asked me to sign a 10K bond for staying with them 1 year after GC ( which is an indeterminate period given retrogression)
Which employer would you call better ?? :)
I worked with a MNC for 4 yr 10 months at US soil and they ruined my GC saying that they want me more at Offshore (India ).... I got intelligence about this planning about 3 months earlier from a real good friend of mine ... So i arranged a H1B Job with a Desi consulting company in this 3 months and when they asked me to go back To India - you know what finger i've shown them.
Now this desi consulting company kept their words with salary,applied for LC quickly( because my H1 was close to 6 yrs) and i'm with them for 2.5 yrs . Now when i reached them for a employer letter for 485 they changed colors and asked me to sign a 10K bond for staying with them 1 year after GC ( which is an indeterminate period given retrogression)
Which employer would you call better ?? :)
more...
knnmbd
05-03 12:39 PM
GreeNever,
The only clarification I would make over Knnmbd's interpretation is that as long as you have a US master's degree or higher, the "3 years work experience in a related field" restriction will not apply. If you read section 201 carefully, you will see that the difference between items 1 and 2 is that item 1 refers to US advanced degree holders while item 2 refers to advanced degree holders (resumably non-US educated). The 3 year restriction only applies to those who fall into item #2.
So, if
a) you have a MS from a US university, you and your immediate family (spouse and minor children) will not be subject to the 3 years restriction and will be exempt from the Visa Cap
b) you have a masters or higher from an acredited non-US university, then the Visa Cap will not apply to you and your family, but you shouldd have worked in the US in a "related" field for 3 years.
My question to everyone:
Will folks in section 201 be required to get a Labor certification? If not, then this will provide relief to a lot of us stuck in the BECs.
Knowledgeable folks, please comment.
REMINDER: Any such bill is still MANY months away from seeing the light of day, if at all. BUT, favorable bills such as these give us hope.
GreeNever,
Thanks for the correction. U.S Master's in STEM means there is no need for the 3 years experience.
With regard to LC, there was some talk in PACE and TALENT of a blanket LC for U.S degree in STEM, but that seems to me missing here. But in the larger context of things, who really cares if with a U.S M.S degree you need to just go through PERM and then you are all set without the hassle( or should I say torture) of the retrogression. This is a �WIN WIN� situation for a lot of people if SKIL goes through.
There is no surprise as to why the Advance degree + 3 years (or no 3 years required in case the advance degree is from a U.S university) clause has found its way into PACE, TALENT, SKIL and was not to mention the failed CIR bill. The bottom line is that there is a sudden urgency to reintroduce the charm of pursuing higher education in the U.S. This benefits the U.S in many ways; universities get more international students paying out of state tuition (good for them specially b�cos the war effort has sucked all resources from educational institutions) and rekindle the brain drain from India and China in the form of researchers and engineers who pursue advance degrees and remain to work in the U.S( it will be surprising if there is no one looking at the booming economies of Asian countries mainly due to number of graduation engineers). So it�s a winning situation for both the U.S to attract smart people, make them spend a �lot� of money in paying tuition in U.S schools and hey what the hell give them a GC to live and work here permanently instead of them heading back home to do great things there.
It works for every one so that�s just great.
The only clarification I would make over Knnmbd's interpretation is that as long as you have a US master's degree or higher, the "3 years work experience in a related field" restriction will not apply. If you read section 201 carefully, you will see that the difference between items 1 and 2 is that item 1 refers to US advanced degree holders while item 2 refers to advanced degree holders (resumably non-US educated). The 3 year restriction only applies to those who fall into item #2.
So, if
a) you have a MS from a US university, you and your immediate family (spouse and minor children) will not be subject to the 3 years restriction and will be exempt from the Visa Cap
b) you have a masters or higher from an acredited non-US university, then the Visa Cap will not apply to you and your family, but you shouldd have worked in the US in a "related" field for 3 years.
My question to everyone:
Will folks in section 201 be required to get a Labor certification? If not, then this will provide relief to a lot of us stuck in the BECs.
Knowledgeable folks, please comment.
REMINDER: Any such bill is still MANY months away from seeing the light of day, if at all. BUT, favorable bills such as these give us hope.
GreeNever,
Thanks for the correction. U.S Master's in STEM means there is no need for the 3 years experience.
With regard to LC, there was some talk in PACE and TALENT of a blanket LC for U.S degree in STEM, but that seems to me missing here. But in the larger context of things, who really cares if with a U.S M.S degree you need to just go through PERM and then you are all set without the hassle( or should I say torture) of the retrogression. This is a �WIN WIN� situation for a lot of people if SKIL goes through.
There is no surprise as to why the Advance degree + 3 years (or no 3 years required in case the advance degree is from a U.S university) clause has found its way into PACE, TALENT, SKIL and was not to mention the failed CIR bill. The bottom line is that there is a sudden urgency to reintroduce the charm of pursuing higher education in the U.S. This benefits the U.S in many ways; universities get more international students paying out of state tuition (good for them specially b�cos the war effort has sucked all resources from educational institutions) and rekindle the brain drain from India and China in the form of researchers and engineers who pursue advance degrees and remain to work in the U.S( it will be surprising if there is no one looking at the booming economies of Asian countries mainly due to number of graduation engineers). So it�s a winning situation for both the U.S to attract smart people, make them spend a �lot� of money in paying tuition in U.S schools and hey what the hell give them a GC to live and work here permanently instead of them heading back home to do great things there.
It works for every one so that�s just great.
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ilikekilo
04-30 01:09 PM
http://www.immigration-information.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4285&page=53
I guess it might be as well for eb3 ROW.. EB3I...well I would be happy if it moves fwd 6 months..
I guess it might be as well for eb3 ROW.. EB3I...well I would be happy if it moves fwd 6 months..
more...
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amdn123
01-24 05:45 PM
I have changed employers on an H1B transfer. My previous employer had filed an I-485, I went through FP as well and it has been 180 days from the filing date. My new employer's lawyer had advised them that AC-21 need not be filed until visa numbers become current. Is that correct? What if I go to a consulate for H1B visa stamping and they ask me whether AC21 has been filed for the empployment visa? Please advise, I am quite confused.
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hopefulgc
09-13 10:04 PM
you got my support chief
Folks
First of all, ask yourself the following points before continue reading.
1. Do I need a Green card at ANY cost ( Any cost = Waiting for yrs, Not willing to risk any other options, afraid to raise issues, not pinpointing flaws )
2. Willing to fight for justice.
If you chose the option 1, please stop reading further and good luck.
For the option 2, here we go.I am new to this web site and it seems there are approx 70k people here and lot more outside. Hugh enough to create miracles.
Just to remind ourself who we are. We are Highly skilled LEGAL immigrants. It not only means we are skillful but it also means we pay every damn tax which is out there. We pay for welfare. We pay for unemployed. We pay for pensioners. List goes on. We pay fees for every application processed by USCIS ( Labor, I-140,I-485,I-765,I-131 etc etc ). We pay rent. We buy cars. We buy houses. In short, we are nothing but GOLD to this economy.
However, this one department called USCIS is literally toying with us for yrs now as if we are slaves or we are obligated to them. We dont want anyone to do us any favour. We need justice.
Friends - I have self respect and i wasn't born chanting Green Card. I AM going to face them, confront them, demand them to provide justice, if not I want them to REFUND every penny i have paid so far. If this "I AM" becomes "WE", half the battle won. TOGETHER WE STAND, VICTORY/JUSTICE FOR ALL. If you are still hesitant, you made a bad choice of choosing option 2. Please go back to option 1.
ITS ABOUT TIME.
Folks
First of all, ask yourself the following points before continue reading.
1. Do I need a Green card at ANY cost ( Any cost = Waiting for yrs, Not willing to risk any other options, afraid to raise issues, not pinpointing flaws )
2. Willing to fight for justice.
If you chose the option 1, please stop reading further and good luck.
For the option 2, here we go.I am new to this web site and it seems there are approx 70k people here and lot more outside. Hugh enough to create miracles.
Just to remind ourself who we are. We are Highly skilled LEGAL immigrants. It not only means we are skillful but it also means we pay every damn tax which is out there. We pay for welfare. We pay for unemployed. We pay for pensioners. List goes on. We pay fees for every application processed by USCIS ( Labor, I-140,I-485,I-765,I-131 etc etc ). We pay rent. We buy cars. We buy houses. In short, we are nothing but GOLD to this economy.
However, this one department called USCIS is literally toying with us for yrs now as if we are slaves or we are obligated to them. We dont want anyone to do us any favour. We need justice.
Friends - I have self respect and i wasn't born chanting Green Card. I AM going to face them, confront them, demand them to provide justice, if not I want them to REFUND every penny i have paid so far. If this "I AM" becomes "WE", half the battle won. TOGETHER WE STAND, VICTORY/JUSTICE FOR ALL. If you are still hesitant, you made a bad choice of choosing option 2. Please go back to option 1.
ITS ABOUT TIME.
more...
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reddymjm
06-05 07:54 PM
My attorney said he sent my 485 on May 31st so that it reaches on JUn 1st. Will update as soon as my checks get cleared.
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americandesi
04-22 02:21 PM
I work for company A which sent me to client C through company B(Prefered vendor). After working with the same client for 1.5 yrs, transfered my h1b to company B(PF) due to issues with the pay with company A. Company A has deducted huge sum of money($4000) from my last months pay towards PERM filing(Still under process). Upon demanding them to reimburse my money saying that its against law, they r threatening me saying that based on non-compete agreement they will take legal action against me.
I am not actually aware of the clauses in the agreement. company B(PF) told me that it does not have any clauses in its agreement with company A prohibiting them from taking me.Though i requested company A to provide me a copy of non-compete, they said i signed with them, they haven�t. The company is located in NJ and not sure how non-competes work under NJ state law.
I am really frustated upon this blackmail and going thru lot of pressure. The amount is too big too leave and cannot afford to hire a lawyer in case they file suit based on non-compete. even if i had signed a non compete agreement how does it stand as it is conflicting the agreement which company a signed with PF sayign tht upon my termination of the emplyment with them, Pf can take me without any gap period... what can i do to get my money. they also refused to provide me with experience letter which i need for my future GC filing.
Plz give me ur valuable inputs
Restrictive employment contracts are non-enforcable, atleast in California. Here's a classic case of a H1B employee who successfully sued his employer on a restrictive employment contract and the employer was ordered to pay $215,050.61 in damages.
http://www.news.com/Body-shop-must-pay-fees-in-H-1B-lawsuit/2100-1017_3-256477.html
Also note that all PERM related expenses should be borne only by the employer. Refer the following link and search for "Certain Payments are Employer's Expenses under PERM" and "Employer Must Pay even with Dual Representation "
http://www.murthy.com/news/n_filrem.html
I am not actually aware of the clauses in the agreement. company B(PF) told me that it does not have any clauses in its agreement with company A prohibiting them from taking me.Though i requested company A to provide me a copy of non-compete, they said i signed with them, they haven�t. The company is located in NJ and not sure how non-competes work under NJ state law.
I am really frustated upon this blackmail and going thru lot of pressure. The amount is too big too leave and cannot afford to hire a lawyer in case they file suit based on non-compete. even if i had signed a non compete agreement how does it stand as it is conflicting the agreement which company a signed with PF sayign tht upon my termination of the emplyment with them, Pf can take me without any gap period... what can i do to get my money. they also refused to provide me with experience letter which i need for my future GC filing.
Plz give me ur valuable inputs
Restrictive employment contracts are non-enforcable, atleast in California. Here's a classic case of a H1B employee who successfully sued his employer on a restrictive employment contract and the employer was ordered to pay $215,050.61 in damages.
http://www.news.com/Body-shop-must-pay-fees-in-H-1B-lawsuit/2100-1017_3-256477.html
Also note that all PERM related expenses should be borne only by the employer. Refer the following link and search for "Certain Payments are Employer's Expenses under PERM" and "Employer Must Pay even with Dual Representation "
http://www.murthy.com/news/n_filrem.html
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nvssln
09-22 04:09 PM
I applied 1st EAD renewal for myself and my wife in August 4th. Still waiting.
Service Center: TSC
Mailed Date: August 4th.
USCIS Recived: August 6th.
Notice Date: August 13th.
Online shows as USCIS received those on the August 12th. Still waiting on EAD approval.
We mailed the AP documents for our family along with the EAD apps. APs for my wife and son were approved on the August 17th. Still waiting on the approval of AP for me.
I suspect who was processing our cases had gone on a big vacation.
Service Center: TSC
Mailed Date: August 4th.
USCIS Recived: August 6th.
Notice Date: August 13th.
Online shows as USCIS received those on the August 12th. Still waiting on EAD approval.
We mailed the AP documents for our family along with the EAD apps. APs for my wife and son were approved on the August 17th. Still waiting on the approval of AP for me.
I suspect who was processing our cases had gone on a big vacation.
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ssss
03-26 03:21 PM
I am not sure if I can get GC in 2011
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akhilmahajan
02-10 11:56 AM
bump.............
somegchuh
05-05 05:39 PM
I think H1Bmajdoor isn't taking a depressing tone. It's more of a realization tone.
I believe that immigrationvoice core is a great, dedicated and determined group of ppl that's fighting retrogression. If they are successful they will positively touch a LOT of ppl.
Here's a little history of GC process I know...
back in the late 90's, labor processing (state+fed) varied for different regions of the country but there was retrogression(not sure how bad) so it used to take 3 years in CA and maybe 4 in some other states for the whole process. And some people who couldn't complete the process in 6 years ended up going back or went to canada. I personally know a couple of families who couldn't get it in 6 years of H1n.
Then in 2000-2001 suddenly labor started getting approved (State+fed) in a couple of months and dates also became current. Now this happened because businesses had been pushing the govt really hard stating that they are unable to get labor. These laws became effective after the market had crashed. So some people who were in safe jobs were able to take advantage but most ppl were hardly surviving. Around 2002 labor process started getting slower and slower and they established BEC's. So, labor started taking 3-5 years.
Then in 2005 they devised PERM. Now, that PERM was taking only a few months so they introduced serious retrogression. In this process some ppl who had been waiting for 4-5 years for labor to clear from BEC got slammed badly. They will be stuck for another year or two. Now that's really sad .... But if you applied in PERM in the last couple of years and will be stuck in retrogression ... well its bad but not the worst thing in life.
I don't mean to belittle anyone's wait, anxiety, pain of GC process but the process has always been painful. Only some ppl manage to get out of it unscathed.
I believe that immigrationvoice core is a great, dedicated and determined group of ppl that's fighting retrogression. If they are successful they will positively touch a LOT of ppl.
Here's a little history of GC process I know...
back in the late 90's, labor processing (state+fed) varied for different regions of the country but there was retrogression(not sure how bad) so it used to take 3 years in CA and maybe 4 in some other states for the whole process. And some people who couldn't complete the process in 6 years ended up going back or went to canada. I personally know a couple of families who couldn't get it in 6 years of H1n.
Then in 2000-2001 suddenly labor started getting approved (State+fed) in a couple of months and dates also became current. Now this happened because businesses had been pushing the govt really hard stating that they are unable to get labor. These laws became effective after the market had crashed. So some people who were in safe jobs were able to take advantage but most ppl were hardly surviving. Around 2002 labor process started getting slower and slower and they established BEC's. So, labor started taking 3-5 years.
Then in 2005 they devised PERM. Now, that PERM was taking only a few months so they introduced serious retrogression. In this process some ppl who had been waiting for 4-5 years for labor to clear from BEC got slammed badly. They will be stuck for another year or two. Now that's really sad .... But if you applied in PERM in the last couple of years and will be stuck in retrogression ... well its bad but not the worst thing in life.
I don't mean to belittle anyone's wait, anxiety, pain of GC process but the process has always been painful. Only some ppl manage to get out of it unscathed.
purplehazea
06-26 03:23 PM
1) This forum is for skilled legal immigrants
2) Any talk about illegal 'rights' and 'plight' is irrelevant to our discussion
3) Getting defensive about illegals or being offensive to any ethnic community is a sharp deviation from our proposed objectives at IV
4) If we do not have anything constructive to contribute while CIR dies, we should rather have constructive decisions about legal immigration bills or topics
5) Lets stay united and fight it out even though the chips may be down right now.
2) Any talk about illegal 'rights' and 'plight' is irrelevant to our discussion
3) Getting defensive about illegals or being offensive to any ethnic community is a sharp deviation from our proposed objectives at IV
4) If we do not have anything constructive to contribute while CIR dies, we should rather have constructive decisions about legal immigration bills or topics
5) Lets stay united and fight it out even though the chips may be down right now.
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